Reverse High Speed at KOXR

[bbuckley]

Is taxiway C at KOXR a reverse on Rwy 25? To a Piper Cherokee it looks wide enough to be a high speed exit in any direction... even the airport diagram doesn't seem crystal clear to me. How can cases like this be determined?
Thx
Bruce

[jtbarton]

It seems as if it can be used in either direction, I would recommend taking D for Twin props and above.

[Peter Grey]

So I'm going to assume the reason you're asking this question is to make sure you don't violate the "no exiting on reverse highspeeds" rule.

Here's the trick, while everyone thinks that's a rule, it's not actually a rule.

To answer the direct question, here is the definition of a "high speed exit" from the Pilot Controller glossary:

HIGH SPEED TAXIWAY− A long radius taxiway
designed and provided with lighting or marking to
define the path of aircraft, traveling at high speed (up
to 60 knots), from the runway center to a point on the
center of a taxiway. Also referred to as long radius
exit or turn-off taxiway. The high speed taxiway is
designed to expedite aircraft turning off the runway
after landing, thus reducing runway occupancy time.

I'd say you could argue it either way regarding that taxiway exit. My opinion is in a fast jet I most likely would roll to Delta, in a prop I'd exit Charlie with the determining factor being "which one gets me off the runway quicker". In the jet having to slow down to 10 on the runway to make that turn onto C is slower then rolling at 40 to D. In a prop I'm already doing 10 so the turn onto C is no big deal.

Now with regards to why it's not a rule.

From AIM 4-3-20 A

Exit the runway without delay at the first
available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by
ATC. Pilots must not exit the landing runway onto
another runway unless authorized by ATC. At
airports with an operating control tower, pilots should
not stop or reverse course on the runway without first
obtaining ATC approval.

You'll find nothing saying you can't exit onto a reverse high speed. So exit at Charlie with no worries.

However, another way to look at it is that some high speeds won't have a " taxiway centerline" for a reverse exit. I'd most likely avoid exiting if there is no centerline guiding me to the taxiway. I can't say it's against regs through.

At OXR both C and D have "reverse" taxiway centerline markings. For an example of an exit that doesn't, look at A5 off of 25L at KLAS.

[bbuckley]

It seems as if it can be used in either direction, I would recommend taking D for Twin props and above.

Thanks jt, concur.

So I'm going to assume the reason you're asking this question is to make sure you don't violate the "no exiting on reverse highspeeds" rule. Here's the trick, while everyone thinks that's a rule, it's not actually a rule.

I actually knew the AIM wording but was unclear on how / when a taxiway is considered a reverse high speed so thanks. Great info. I figured in my Archer (RW and sim) that most of the time I'm slow enough, and the airplane is small enough, that proceeding down to the next taxiway is more of an issue than cutting the corner of a reverse and angling in without stopping or reversing on the runway. I do it all the time at my home field on a reverse that is near the approach end of a very long runway and no one in the tower has ever questioned me. In fact I've been asked to make the landing as short as practical (and exit on the reverse if able, without using that terminology, just taxiway ID) to expedite for traffic holding short for departure.

On PE the other evening I was proactively given "authorization" to exit on C and I was confused at first since I didn't even think of it as a reverse high speed. The controller pointed it out and it made sense but then I was curious about how it was determined. So, there isn't any special markings or diagram indicator or anything right? Just the geometry.
Thanks!
Bruce

[RyanK]

From AIM 4-3-20 A

At
airports with an operating control tower, pilots should
not stop or reverse course on the runway without first
obtaining ATC approval.

It's this bit that I've heard cited as the reason it might be against the rules, but I'm not sure I'd agree either that taking a reverse high speed is "reversing course on the runway."

[Peter Grey]

It's this bit that I've heard cited as the reason it might be against the rules, but I'm not sure I'd agree either that taking a reverse high speed is "reversing course on the runway."

That's the 1 argument I saw, with the theory being "you aren't clear of the runway until clear of the hold short lines" and "any turn past 90 degrees is reversing course".

I don't agree with either point. The intent of that statement is to say don't turn around on a runway to get to a taxiway behind you. Applying it to a high speed is dubious at best in my view. However, from a more logic oriented sense an airplane is "clear of the runway" when past the white edge lines and continually moving towards the hold short lines.

From the P/CG:

A pilot or controller may consider an aircraft,
which is exiting or crossing a runway, to be clear of
the runway when all parts of the aircraft are beyond
the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its
continued movement beyond the applicable runway
holding position marking.

I also don't know where the "any turn past 90 is reversing course" comes from. There are lots of non high speed taxiways where you can end up turning more then 90 (due to a small overshoot for example), so saying any turn past 90 is illegal until clear of the hold short times is dubious to me at best.

So, there isn't any special markings or diagram indicator or anything right?

Correct, with an argument possible that if there isn't a yellow taxiway center-line going from the runway to the taxiway it's a bit more of a gray area. The controller was mistaken in how he "authorized" you to exit on C and that error has been corrected.