CLNC or GND?

[bbuckley]

This is a minor thing, but a couple of times now I've called March CLNC DEL for departure and flight following and been told there is no CLNC and that I'm on GND. I recognize the freq is the same for both, but CLNC DEL is specifically listed on both the Airport Diagram and A/FD (the same thing applies at my home field, KMLB). I have always addressed them as CLNC when asking for a clearance and GND when asking for taxi. Is that incorrect?
Thanks,
Bruce

[Keith Smith]

Interesting case. I'm not sure why they list it in the airport supplement and airport diagram for KRIV, but I can see why they do for KMLB (the freq changes when tower is closed). Given that it's listed as a position (albeit with the same freq as ground) I can see why you'd address them as clearance.

In our system, controllers will see that you're on what is reported as the ground freq (not knowing the situation with the clearance freq being published as the same freq) and would naturally correct you as a result.

Generally speaking, if I see clnc and ground are combined, I'd just address them as ground. You won't get called out in the r/w for addressing them as clearance, I suspect, but this is one of the few cases I can think of where PE ends up being different. We'd have to update our position names to alert the controller that the position is both clearance and ground (not too hard to do, actually).

[kullery]

FYI- Similar situations at KCMA, KSDM and eventually at KYKM

[bbuckley]

FYI- Similar situations at KCMA, KSDM and eventually at KYKM

Interesting looking at the A/FD for each and trying to figure out why they list both functions. I wonder who / how the decision is made to list both? Must be a local thing?

I can see why they do for KMLB (the freq changes when tower is closed).

BTW, the freq when the tower is closed at KMLB is the Orlando TRACON freq. I've never tried to get it on the ground but maybe this implies they have an RCO at the airport. The KMLB ATCT controllers won't coordinate flight following on the ground and always advise to contact ORL on 132.65 airborne.

Generally speaking, if I see clnc and ground are combined, I'd just address them as ground.

I've always thought of it in the same way as addressing SOCAL or ORL DEP as "departure" when departing and "approach" when enroute or on approach. Same freq and same person just different phase. So if CLNC is specifically listed and I'm calling for clearance I address as clearance, probably just confuses them but nobody has said anything. At KMLB in off peak hours all the positions are covered by one controller anyway.

I understand now what the PE controllers see so I'll address them as ground.
Thanks,
Bruce

[kullery]

I suspect it is very much a "local thing", When I compiled data for the website, I could not locate a readily available database of airport communication frequencies (other then CTAF and UNICOM). I ended up manually pulling them from the A/FD (now Chart Supplement). The data in the NFDC online search is very inconsistent in it's formatting. Sometimes they list the frequency once and designate both positions, other times they list the same frequency multiple times.

By coincidence, Keith is flying to KASH today, which lists:
NASHUA TOWER 133.2 (1200–0200Z‡) GND CON 121.8
CLNC DEL 121.8

[Keith Smith]

I ended up not going today, there was too much of a threat of embedded thunderstorms for the departure window and for scheduling purposes, I had to make the call (either way) pretty early. Rescheduled for Thursday.