It Sure Can Get Exciting!

[signmanbob]

I loaded up enough fuel to get from KPDX to KSFO, but went and started my aircraft before getting clearance. The controllers were busy, so it took longer than I expected to get going and I burned more fuel sitting at KPDX than I expected. I thought about shutting down and adding some fuel, but said the heck with it and went on my way.
Well, I was sweating it bad on approach to KSFO going on fumes. I kept the gear up as long as I could to keep from causing more drag, but amazingly I made it all the way to the gate
Look at the fuel gauges! Of course I never shared my concerns with the passengers

[Kyle.Sanders]

Load the aircraft up enough just to get avionics/radios working, call clearance then, and then finish your start up.

[Keith Smith]

Reminds me of some of my LJ25 arrivals. That thing is 'minimum fuel' before we reach the end of the runway at the departure airport.

That said, it makes little sense to have two jet engines turning and burning at the gate while you pick up a clearance. As Kyle and every airline checklist that I know of says, fire up the APU or plug in to ground power, get your clearance, program the FMS, take your time, then start them up during push back.

[Kyle.Sanders]

(I think Keith means GPU, as the APU burns your fuel from your aircraft tanks... a GPU is a ground power unit)

[signmanbob]

Load the aircraft up enough just to get avionics/radios working, call clearance then, and then finish your start up.

Reminds me of some of my LJ25 arrivals. That thing is 'minimum fuel' before we reach the end of the runway at the departure airport.

That said, it makes little sense to have two jet engines turning and burning at the gate while you pick up a clearance. As Kyle and every airline checklist that I know of says, fire up the APU or plug in to ground power, get your clearance, program the FMS, take your time, then start them up during push back.

I'll definitely do this next time and be more careful.
To add to the problem, on approach, I was fighting a 65kt offset head wind. I had to crab it in and the aircraft came to taxi speed almost as soon as it touched the runway. That was the longest approach I've ever had.
It was very stressful, but fun.

Yes, I'll have to get it on the GPU on start. When I load the IXEG 737, it has the APU already running. I might change that in the future.

[Keith Smith]

(I think Keith means GPU, as the APU burns your fuel from your aircraft tanks... a GPU is a ground power unit)

Nope I meant APU (or ground power if it's available) The fuel burn of an APU is very little compared to two full size engines.

[Kyle.Sanders]

True

[Steven Maddox]

Keith and Kyle are correct. The only instance I can think of in real life where we'd get our clearance with the engines running is departing an uncontrolled airport (i.e. EUG early in the morning). In that case, we start up, taxi out while announcing on CTAF, then call SEA Center for clearance holding short of the runway, head back to CTAF, and call center again once airborne. Normally we (or the dispatcher, if he's a good one ) plan extra taxi fuel for uncontrolled fields because we know we'll burn a bit holding short waiting on clearance. Luckily, it's usually early enough in the morning that it's a non-issue.

[Kyle.Sanders]

Even then^, the controller could get you your clearance at an uncontrolled field while you are at the ramp.
When they ask you for your expected departure time, tell them but, you could ask them if you can just call holding short of the runway.
Then they could give you a 5-10min clearance void time.
That's easier for you and ATC in my opinion.

[Steven Maddox]

Even then^, the controller could get you your clearance at an uncontrolled field while you are at the ramp.
When they ask you for your expected departure time, tell them but, you could ask them if you can just call holding short of the runway.
Then they could give you a 5-10min clearance void time.
That's easier for you and ATC in my opinion.

Good point, Kyle! Would you guys basically just read the clearance to us, but not activate it in the system or protect the airspace until we called up short of the runway? Could the FSS IFR clearance line do the same thing?