Announcing IFR too many times. sop?

[pkofman]

So the other night I announced ( as I do in the real world ) that I was IFR.

I announced to clearance delivery that I was IFR when looking for my clearance (obviously)
I announced... ready to taxi... IFR
then at the threshold ... ready for departure... IFR

I actually got some pushback from the controller for this and he said that is was not necessary ..... more of a sim thing not real world
Said that I announced it too many times?

That is not my experience in the real world. But then again I'm Canadian and who knows.
Maybe we just do things a bit differently, not wrong, just differently
However, Never I have never had any complaint from a controller when doing this in the U.S

What is your SOP?

Peter

[Kevin_atc]

It’s a very common fight sim habit thanks to Microsoft’s synthetic ATC where it says “ready to taxi, IFR.” I can’t speak for Canada, but in the US this is definitely pointless and a waste of frequency time. The only time you MIGHT want to say it is with clearance delivery, but even then, they have an IFR flight strip for you sitting right in front of them. So if you just say “N123, clearance to Long Beach.” The controller is going to assume you’re IFR and they’ll have a strip for you. It’s more of an assumption that you’re asking for IFR because you’re requesting a “clearance.”

As far as the taxi goes, ground will have a strip for all IFR departures so they’ll be ready for your call whereas a VFR departure won’t have a strip created yet (this can be a bit different at class B and C airports but that’s fairly irrelevant in this conversation).

For your takeoff clearance, the controller will DEFINTIELY know who is approaching the runway, especially if you’re IFR.

Ironically, just yesterday I had a Cirrus check on at 6000 just cruising in flight. He checked in saying “Center, Cirrus XXXX, instruments at 6000.” He proceeded to check in with the next guy the same way and we just laughed about it. Completely worthless information.

So to sum it up, you really never have to say that you’re IFR.

[pkofman]

Interesting. I actually fly ifr allot in the real world. I’m not shy ever about telling atc what I’m up to. Even if it is repetitive. Better safe than sorry. . I’m sure you guys see and hear much which is hilarious online. The interesting thing is it’s hard enough to fly the sim with precision at times. So if you get all of the calls and flying correct than it is a good day !! And it’s a healthy safe environment to make mistakes and learn from each other

[Keith Smith]

Kevin,

At the enroute level, I agree, there's no need to say it. At the tower level, though, there have been instances where ATC thought a pilot was departing VFR. Only when the pilot said, "over to departure?" did the controller revisit the strip and see that the pilot was actually IFR. No release had been obtained from the tracon and the controller had to scramble to get it resolved.

Sure, it's an edge case, but as a method of ensuring that everyone is on the same page as the flight kicks off, I don't think it hurts to remind the tower if the weather is VMC and you're departing on an IFR flight plan. If it's low IFR, then it's a bit more obvious as nobody would be departing VFR in those conditions in any case.

[pkofman]

Keith here is my take, I would not be wrong to state my intention"ifr" once given the authority to take off. Ie I would say something like

n123mt . clear to t/o rnwy 33, ifr

Ok, your controller might shoot me but once I state my next move for the 3rd time but if I'm clear then I know what I'm doing and so do they.... confirmation and affirmation. !!
So on pilotedge I find these methods applied a little inconsistently. Contrary to the post above I did not learn flying fsx, I learned this in my plane, flying around in the real world
In my experience, everyone along the line likes " confirmation" of actions and intended action so that we are all on the same page.

Another thought and reference, I know you have some sort of affiliation with "pilotworkshop.com" and I've purchased a ton of their stuff ( including watching you fly around in your plane ). I purchased the handbook of ifr communications.
That book tells you that you need to state IFR at the threshold prior to departure. IFR is at the end of every statement in that document pertaining to movement from the Ramp to the threshold.

I'm sure there are endless opinions here but it does not really matter because in my experience the more interaction and communication, the healthier and safer for all involved
Not really a bad habit to develop as you move from the simulation to personal real world sop's.

Thanks for weighing in.
Pete

[Kevin_atc]

That’s an interesting take on it. I suppose the tower people may have a bit more confusion so it’s not the worst idea down on the ground.

[Les Parson]

From a former FAA ATCS (TUS/JFK/LAX), stating "IFR" for a GA type on initial contact is normal, especially for CD (clearance delivery). After that throughout the NAS (National Airspace System), it wouldn't be the norm to state "IFR" with each facility. I'm basically saying the same thing as Kevin Myers.

For AC (Air Carriers) stating "IFR" is redundant as U.S. FAR Part 121 Air Carriers are not authorized for VFR ops.

[Keith Smith]

Peter,

I helped edit that communications manual, so you won't get much argument from me when it comes to saying it on the ground prior to takeoff. Everyone who has replied so far agrees that it's not needed once you're underway, though.

[pkofman]

I agree with that as well, one can easily overdo it. Thanks and those manuals are actually pretty awesome and a good learning tool when starting out! Takes some mystery out of the system when learning this stuff and notably Canada and US are similar but different.
Have a great day Pete