Question for licensed pilots

[Colin Payette]

I'm evaluating some things in my training and I don't know a lot of pilots personally, so I was hoping a few real world pilots wouldn't mind answering a few questions. Again, this is just for myself and not a study or anything.

How many hours before your first solo?
How many hours before your first DUAL cross country?
How many hours before your PPL checkride?

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to answer these. I'm just concerned my numbers are being based more off my flight school's syllabus rather than actual skill and proficiency. My instructor could practically be reading a book while I fly cross country (thanks PE!) so I don't think it's fair I should have to spend 75 hours to be ready for the checkride.

[Keith Smith]

Colin,

The numbers are influenced by SO many factors that it makes them almost irrelevant. If you feel you're ready, ask your instructor for a specific list of things that aren't up to snuff in his/her mind with your flying. If he/she can't give specifics on why you're not ready, it just might 'wake him up.'

When I was getting close-ish to being ready for my instrument ride, I asked my instructor to outline exactly what would be happening between now and the ride. He was happy to accommodate. I didn't ask him because I thought we were going too slow, I simply wanted to have a better feel for the steps that were involved between now and the check ride.

If the instructor won't send you for the ride until you reach a certain amount of total time, then something is amiss. Hopefully that's not the case. Just have an honest dialogue with the instructor, "I feel like I'm ready and can fly to PTS standards. Where are we in the training progression? What still needs to be covered or demonstrated that we haven't already done?" He/she should have a solid and immediate answer for you.

[Colin Payette]

I've spoken with my instructor about it, and I think I waited too long. At this point, I have very little left - 2 solo cross country flights, a couple review flights and then the test.

I think my instructor is great, and he actually agrees with me on most of my concerns. My problem is the flight school itself treating every student as if they are of the 75-hour variety. My instructor is aware that I'm an advanced student, but there doesn't seem to be much he can do to override the owner of the place. I've never had mic fright, he hasn't grabbed the controls on a landing since April, got 97% ground school average and written, and even makes comments along the lines of how I make it so he doesn't have to do anything. Yet, I still had to do 30 hours of touch-and-goes before even breaking into cross-country - because that's how the lessons are typed out.

I think my best bet is to just finish, and go elsewhere for any further training (IFR, Multi, Commercial). It sucks because I like my instructor, but a $15k PPL is just too much.

[scottcame]

I agree with Keith, it really varies by individual. The key is for you and your instructor both to feel like you're ready, and to set limits that allow safe growth opportunities. I didn't do my PPL training through a school...just working one-on-one with an instructor, and studying on my own. That worked very well for me, but I imagine it would be a challenge for some students (and instructors). Having to live with a fixed syllabus and fixed timeline for the major milestones (solo in the pattern, solo XC, checkride, etc.) set by the school would not have worked well for me. 30 hours of solo pattern work before soloing to another airport seems excessive; I did my first solo xc within 5 hours of soloing in the pattern.

A lot of being a safe pilot is about good decision-making. The approach I took, working with my instructor one-on-one and being self-driven (versus syllabus-driven), afforded me the chance to develop those skills. After each lesson, or between lessons, if I wanted to do something (e.g., an xc to a new airport), all I had to do was ask. We'd talk through my reasoning, and if he agreed it was safe, we'd arrange to meet for the sign-off, where he'd thoroughly review my flight planning. On one or two occasions, he gave me a couple of additional factors to consider, asked me to think about it, and to call back if I wanted to pursue it further. In those circumstances, I went with a plan B. It really helped to develop the process I go through every time I plan a flight now that the signoff isn't in the picture. (Except on PE...I just fire up and go! ).

It sounds like you plan to move on to the IFR... If so, you might talk to your CFI about doing some preliminary work (dual) that would start you down that road, if you're mostly ready for the checkride and just burning hours required by the school. After all, you need the three hours of simulated instrument flying for the PPL...nothing says you can't do some more. Have your CFI file, and then log some dual xc time in actual IMC. Shoot some approaches. Just make sure it doesn't distract from what you need to do for the PPL...which is virtually all about flying by outside references.

[Colin Payette]

Thanks for the advice! I am very self-driven too, so sometimes I wish I had gone the route you've taken. I just didn't know any pilots so I went to a school.

To clarify, I didn't mean 30 solo hours in the pattern. I meant my first 30 hours of dual instruction was pattern work other than maybe 3-4 hours of maneuvers. I was getting kind of eager to actually go somewhere and put all my self-study of navigation to work. I guess I could understand if I had trouble with landings, but I really didn't.

I'd like to get my CFI rating to teach people individually, and make it fun. You want to see what it looks like at night? Let's go! Not, "Nope, that's lesson #xx and we need 22.4 more hours first."

[Keith Smith]

Colin,

Very interesting. Is this Part 61 or Part 141?

[Colin Payette]

Part 141. I only have a basic understanding of the difference, but everything is FAA approved. Whenever they give me paperwork, there's 3-4 pages of some FAA revisions and approvals in it. We have to do 3 stage checks with the chief instructor, and I'm about to do the stage 2 check (cross country solo).

What I don't get is how, if I passed ground school and the written with 97%, I still have to schedule 1 on 1 ground lessons to go over radio navigation or airspace. I didn't really do any research though, which is my fault. I just picked a school and went with it.

[Colin Payette]

I just received clarification. It's a part 141 approved school but I'm under part 61.

[Jonathon S]

I'm evaluating some things in my training and I don't know a lot of pilots personally, so I was hoping a few real world pilots wouldn't mind answering a few questions. Again, this is just for myself and not a study or anything.

How many hours before your first solo?
How many hours before your first DUAL cross country?
How many hours before your PPL checkride?

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to answer these. I'm just concerned my numbers are being based more off my flight school's syllabus rather than actual skill and proficiency. My instructor could practically be reading a book while I fly cross country (thanks PE!) so I don't think it's fair I should have to spend 75 hours to be ready for the checkride.

My advice is to never forget that you are the customer. If you feel you are wasting money (time), go somewhere else. You should have a good relationship with your instructor AND your FBO/Flight School and feel comfortable asking to try new things. Remember, you are paying that meter a ton of money. If you are renting a plane for $100/hr and paying an instructor $35/hr, think of how long it takes you to earn that money. Make the school work for you. If they won't do it, then spend a few hours with a new instructor at a different school and continue from there.

I solo'd with 17.6 hours. I've heard of people that have solo'd in 10 hours and people who have solo'd in 30 hours. It's all about comfort and confidence. My first solo landing, I came in super hot (around 70kt) and bounced it - this was after doing three good landings with my instructor. It took me a split second to punch the throttle and go around. There were a few seconds where I thought I was done for but that needs to be pushed from your mind - confidence and comfort in the cockpit. You tell the airplane what to do, not the other way around. I feel like that was the "click" for me, when my instructor knew I was ready to solo.

My first dual cross-country took place after I had solo'd to a few other local airports. That mile stone was actually more important to me than the dual cross-country, as I had made that step to "using" an airplane as transportation. When I did my first XC, I had 30.7 hours - I flew to Atlantic City and back. Then, I did it by myself. This is really a comfort thing, as I was always nervous that I wouldn't be able to find the airport. My second solo cross-country was supposed to be to Lancaster but it was socked in that day. My instructor figuratively threw a dart at the map and handed me the A/FD page for Millville. I planned the flight, got a briefing and took off. Finding that airport with no help from anyone else was a big boost (not like you could miss Millville. It's the giant X on the ground over there...)

I'm now in the process of scheduling my checkride. I have 51.6 hours. Do I feel ready? I'm a little apprehensive but I think I'm ready.

[Colin Payette]

I'm close to where you are, with 50.4 hours. My first solo was at 34 hours, and I don't think it was about being ready as it was what to do when I was ready. "You're ready to solo, now we need to to a mock stage check, then the real stage check, then one more flight to work on whatever was brought up in the stage check." (How is this part 61 again??)

I really think I should have stayed on top of my lesson plan but I was just caught up in the excitement at first. Before I knew it, 30 hours of touch and goes. At this point, I think finishing my PPL with this instructor is more cost efficient than going elsewhere, since I'm so close to done. But then I will close my club membership, and won't be going back there for further training.

Edit: I did express a few concerns to the school and am getting 10% off everything past 35 hours. It helps a little, but at $120-$130/hr plane and $49 instructor, I'm still going to have to shop around for the next stages.