Flying in Class B airspace

[Vincent Meier]

Hello all,

I just finished a VFR flight from KLAX to KSNA and I have a few of questions.
I was flying VFR following the shoreline at 2500 ft.
1. I was for most of the flight below Class B airspace at 2500 ft. Would I not be on my own in terms of altitude as I was well below the Bravo airspace?
2. I was told to stay clear of Torrence Delta airspace. That Delta is at 2400 ft, I was at 2500 ft... Is there a minimum that you have to be above the Delta airspace? In my mind I was clear of Delta and below Bravo.
3. While I was in the Bravo airspace and getting close the the Class C KSNA airspace, I changed the frequency to SOCAL app for KSNA. I was told by the controller - original SOCAL DEPT(Class B). that I should not have changed frequency and should have stayed with him. He said that I had flight following. I did not request flight following in my VFR clearance. So the question is...Is flight following automatic in class B airspace? I am now assuming so, since it is one of the busiest airspaces.(but I was actually below it)
I just want to make one hop were I do not make a mistake...that day will come...

Thanks to all in advance.

[Keith Smith]

1. Yes, if you're not in the Bravo airspace, the altitude would be at your discretion. While flying in the Bravo itself, you may well receive an altitude restriction.

2. Being told to remain clear of Torrance's Delta does NOT imply that you had entered the Delta and needed to exit the airspace. The controller was simply letting you know that he had not coordinated a transition of that airspace on your behalf, and was issuing instructions to keep you outside of the airspace. Had he not issued them, you may have felt like you could descend below 2400ft, into the Delta, without warning, since you had established contact with ATC (albeit, not the facility that is actually responsible for that airspace).

3. If, when you departed LAX, you informed the controller that you were flying to SNA, that may have been construed as a request for flight following. If you didn't want flight following, I would not include the destination and would instead request "VFR departure to the southeast at 2500." Once you were clear of the Bravo, your radar services would be terminated, and you'd hear "frequency change approved." It was a mistake to make an unprompted swap from the departure controller's frequency to another frequency. Even though you hadn't requested flight following, the fact that you were on a discrete beacon code (presumably), were in radar contact, and hadn't been given a frequency change should all have been signs that you were receiving radar service.

[Vincent Meier]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the clarifications to my questions. What you are saying makes a lot of sense.
I see that there are some subtle nuances when getting clearance now, as I indeed did ask for "VFR to KSNA" instead of "South down shoreline at 2500".
I did question myself if I should make a frequency change, because actually it did not "feel" right at the time(because the controller did not say at any point "clear of Bravo". I will now listen for "frequency change approved"
Rookie mistakes by a rookie.
With your answers, the mud is a little less thick now and I think a lightbulb is coming on.

Thanks again for all of your help. Onwards and upwards.

[Andrew Doubleday]

Vincent,


I was working with a trainee last night when you departed LAX and we ended up in a discussion in regards to a standard operating procedure. Some confusion resulted from this discussion as to whether or not you were going to need a departure frequency and it kind of just slipped through the cracks. If you're ever in doubt about something, feel free to clarify with us on the ground or, in the air, it's alright to make a request to cancel the radar services or even ask about why you were receiving them if confused (In some cases, it would be necessary to receive radar services leaving LAX with the class B). No harm to double check if something doesn't seem clear about what you initially requested.

Sorry for the mix-up.


Regards,

[Vincent Meier]

Hi Andrew,
Thank you for responding to my question.
You are absolutely right that I should check if unclear about the ATC instructions given and I will endeavor to do so in the future.
Please do not apologize for the mix up. There is some responsibility on my part as PIC to know what the heck(I would replace heck with another word if I was not on this forum ) I am doing up there!!!