climb vis a given SID

[Mueller]

Hi

may be you know all this already!

We know from the I-09 rating LAS to LAX the phraseology "descend via". I've read that FAA will august 15 introduce the similar phraseology "climb via" (a given SID). On www.faa.gov/tv/?mediaId=507 there is a video of about 18 minutes about it. Quite instructive.

So long
Hans

[Mark Hargrove]

There is a curious thing that happens in the last 3 minutes or so of the video (during example SID 3). The 'PRYME 2' RNAV SID they're flying has a final waypoint named RAISN which has a 'CROSS AT' altitude of 10,000 feet. After departure, they're vectored off of the SID for spacing, then vectored back on via the phraseology "TRANSAMERICA 209, proceed direct RAISN, climb via the PRYME 2 departure, except after RAISN maintain one two thousand." The first officer reads this back correctly, but the pilot then immediately sets 12,000 into the FMS as their top of climb.

I'm not sure I understand why this is OK. I would interpret the ATC clearance as 'fly the PRYME 2, complying with all altitude restrictions (including crossing RAISN at 10,000), and then climb and maintain 12,000". I would think that if the controller wanted me at 12,000 without regard to RAISN, they'd have just said "cleared direct RAISN, climb and maintain 12,000". If they wanted me to cross RAISN at 12,000, they'd have said "...direct RAISN, climb via the PRYME 2, except cross RAISN at maintain 12,000". Since they didn't say any of those things, I'd expect the CROSSING altitude for RAISN to still be 10,000, followed by a climb to 12,000.

Is this just a sloppy example, or am I failing to understand what "except after RAISN, maintain 12,000" means?

-M.

[Ryan Geckler]

Don't worry too much about it right now. The FAA has stopped the usage of "climb via", so you won't hear it until they release more clarification.

[Alex Stjepanovic]

I don't know much about automation, nor do I care for it one bit, but one "off the street" logical guess is that they told the computer to use 12k as the final, but to still follow some restrictions beforehand.

[Brandon Grchan]

Seems they want you to comply with the restriction just stop your climb at 12k....as opposed to whatever the published final altitude is.