help with flight following into bravo airspace..

[serious_simmer_FSX]

so I'm taking off from ksmo vfr to POM vor then onto L35 Little bear

where do I find out who to contact to get clearance through the bravo.. floor starts at 2500 I was at 3000 and got busted and called out for it..

should I have asked socal dep?

frustrated.. Brian S

[Keith Smith]

Brian,

I'd strongly encourage you to view the VFR workshop videos, this is the sort of practical stuff that we're covering. Next session will be towered airport VFR flight planning...I'd be happy to include a scenario involving that flight you just described if you like.

A specific clearance is required prior to entering Class B airspace. The first task is to be aware of that fact regarding Bravo airspace in general. The second task is to know how to identify Bravo airspace on a sectional/TAC chart. The third task is to work out who to call to enter the Bravo airspace. Based on the signage on the Terminal Area Chart just NW of SMO, I'd say 134.90 would be a reasonable start. Prior to calling them AND receiving a clearance, it is 100% your responsibility to remain clear of the Bravo.

There's really no such thing as a 'simple' VFR flight anywhere near LAX. You can't go more than a few miles without having to consider someone's Delta, Charlie or Bravo airspace. The flights have to be planned relatively carefully. Once you have examined the airspace, it's not too hard to pick a route/altitude that will result in a relatively simple flight, but if you simply launch and go...you're almost certainly going to have an issue.

[Keith Smith]

Here's a link to the portion of the LAX Terminal Area Chart showing the Class B/C/TRSA freqs: http://skyvector.com/?ll=34.14501633851 ... 114&zoom=2

Here's a link to the LAX Fly Chart showing the 2500 segment of the Bravo: http://skyvector.com/?ll=34.04293318820 ... 150&zoom=2

Here's a link to the Terminal Area Chart showing the frequency box near the LAX Bravo: http://skyvector.com/?ll=34.12424450363 ... 114&zoom=2

[serious_simmer_FSX]

Brian,

I'd strongly encourage you to view the VFR workshop videos, this is the sort of practical stuff that we're covering. Next session will be towered airport VFR flight planning...I'd be happy to include a scenario involving that flight you just described if you like.

yes, I need to .. it's to late when you have them live.. so.. I can catch up here.

A specific clearance is required prior to entering Class B airspace. The first task is to be aware of that fact regarding Bravo airspace in general. The second task is to know how to identify Bravo airspace on a sectional/TAC chart. The third task is to work out who to call to enter the Bravo airspace. Based on the signage on the Terminal Area Chart just NW of SMO, I'd say 134.90 would be a reasonable start. Prior to calling them AND receiving a clearance, it is 100% your responsibility to remain clear of the Bravo.

I had the first task down, the second task done.. the third task is where I fell short.. I requested flight following so he passed me on to socal dep on 125.2 - should I have just ask him for bravo transition?

There's really no such thing as a 'simple' VFR flight anywhere near LAX. You can't go more than a few miles without having to consider someone's Delta, Charlie or Bravo airspace. The flights have to be planned relatively carefully. Once you have examined the airspace, it's not too hard to pick a route/altitude that will result in a relatively simple flight, but if you simply launch and go...you're almost certainly going to have an issue.

yeah I did all that.. my mistake was thinking that since I had flight following I would be told who to contact and be handed off... now would he have handed me off if it would have been charlie a/s?

[Ryan B]

I haven't done a lot with Bravo stuff on PE... but the way it usually works is once you ask for the Bravo entry/transition, and ATC CLEARS you into/through the bravo, and you request flight following you shouldn't have to ask for bravo entry again. That's how I see it as a rw controller (but I only work at small facility with class D primary airport).

RW pilots with lots of Bravo experience feel free to correct me!

So looking at skyvector, if you wanted to fly from SMO to POM to L35... you'd request flight following from SMO ground, they'd give you a code, you'd depart, you contact socal departure, THEN you ask for clearance into bravo at whatever altitude... say 5,500 for this flight. (This whole part might be assumed if you asked to climb to 5,500 from SMO ground, and SMO MAY coordinate the Bravo entry with socal departure). Socal clears you in to the Bravo and you shouldn't have to ask ever again.... you'll exit class B to the north east side near El Monte EMT, then they'll just keep handing you off (frequency change) to the next socal sector as you fly over the Class C @ KONT, and you could terminate FF at the east side of KONT over by KSBD... just be careful not to go through KSBD's Class D (or if you need to ask for transition from the TOWER if you're still not talking to socal)... then you'd be on your own into uncontrolled Big Bear.

It's a little confusing but basically the TRACON (socal made up of many different sectors) that covers the primary airport in class B will handle you all the way to your destination in socal airspace. It also means that whoever is "working" you in the LAX Bravo will hand you off to next controller and you don't have to ask for a C transition (because you're already talking to the controller who has jurisdiction over KONT airport/airspace - well sort of but we'll leave it at that to keep things simple). And if you stuck with socal even through SBD's Delta you wouldn't have to ask them for a D transition because the controller working you (probably from ontario sector) has jurisdiction over the Class D @ KSBD.

You could fly this route without talking to anyone except SMO ground and or tower...

Just fly @ 2000 ft departing SMO eastbound, cut to north side of KEMT's class D, and then stay to north side of Ontario's Class C, and onwards to Big Bear. Once you get on the north side of EMT you can climb to 17,500 if you really want to and top the Class C @ KONT or just stay to the north side on your way to L35.

Also FWIW, the FAA is working on new sectional charts that should be much more clear, especially in congested airspace like socal.

edit: Also if you weren't aware or don't own a sectional chart for this area use http://skyvector.com/
It's amazingly helpful. All you do is enter KSMO in the upper left to get the map aligned with your start airport. Then select Los Angeles TAC on the upper right side of the map to open the Terminal Area Chart view...

In a nutshell just watch out for sneaky D airspace and class C's that butt up against class B... there's so much yellow it's difficult to read sometimes.

[Keith Smith]

I neglected to notice that you already had flight following. In that case, it's not a question of who to call, it's just a question of making your intentions known. Just tell the controller you'd like to transition the Bravo once you're anywhere near it (and if you're departing SMO heading eastbound, you're near it!).

[serious_simmer_FSX]

Yeah. That is what I thought. I'll do that flight again

I watched the first video. Over three hrs of it. Whew I was tired after that. But someone asked the exact question at about 1:30:36. I think.