LAXX SIX DEPARTURE question

[arb65912]

Gentlemen, if it was asked and answered before , I am sorry but I was not able to find the answer.
I want to fly KLAX-KSAN in CRJ2, there is TEC route LAXN11: LAXX DP MZB J110
I understand that LAXX DP means I will be flying LAXX SIX SID.
There are two transitions for LAXX SIX: THERMAL TRANSITION (LAXX6.TRM) and IMPERIAL TRANSITION (LAXX6.IP)
TEC route calls for MZB which is not a transition for LAXX SIX.

Question: how do I fly to MZB?
Do I fly to OCN and then ask for direct MZB or I fly all the way to IPL which does not seem to be right.

Please help. Thank you. Cheers, AJ

[julio.elizalde]

AJ,

I think the TEC Route you're referring to is for LAX-SAN not LAX-LAS. The chart indicates two options: either you'll receive a vector to SLI to join the TRM or IPL transitions, or you can also receive a vector to an assigned fix or VOR such as SXC, MZB, or even CARDI intersection. The second page narrative says "radar vectors to assigned route/fix/transition." In the case of LAXX6 MZB, your assigned fix is MZB.

You'll fly the departure procedure for your departure runway as published and then the departure controller will give you vectors to MZB.

[arb65912]

Hi Julio, yes, it was a typo, I have meant SAN of course, I edited the post.
Thank you very much for an instant reply.
Now, I will have to try the flight ....

[Mark Hargrove]

Julio,

In general, if none of the published transitions take in the direction you want to go, can you file any reasonable fix that lies beyond mandatory portions of the DP? In this particular case, the TEC route specifies the "next" fix. What if there wasn't a TEC route to an airport we wanted to fly to down near San Diego? Could we file LAXX6.<some fix that made sense>?

-M.

[julio.elizalde]

Hi Mark,

I think the LAXX6 seems pretty clearly intended to facilitate traffic flow to the southeast of LAX. Between the IPL and TRM transitions, SXC and MZB, those major "gates" out of the LAX airport should place you in the general vicinity of where you want to go. From those fixes you could always file something that would more closely naviagate you to the specific airport you have in mind.

[arb65912]

In that particular case I would file just LAXN11 and nothing else OR LAXX DP MZB, correct? I mean just for filling purposes.

Would it be OK to file LAXX6.OCN MZB ? That would be the best in my opinion. Cheers, AJ

[julio.elizalde]

Yes, you could just file LAXN11 or LAXX6 MZB and they would both mean the same thing.

If you filed LAXX6 OCN MZB, the clearance controller would most likely amend back to LAXX6 MZB to conform with the TEC route. Consider this, if you flew OCN to MZB, you'd be flying over V23 airway that is mostly used by propeller aircraft. Sending you direct to MZB after departing LAX keeps you from having to deal with sequencing with or descending near any prop aircraft flying to SAN on V23. That's why TEC routes are different for different types of aircraft.

[arb65912]

Julio, thank you very much for your replies. I am sorry to drag that subject but I still have doubts....
So, I file LAXX6 MZB , I understand that part. I also understand that flying from OCN direct to MZB is not the option because of the V23 airway use.

Knowing above, what would be the most probable route then as far as waypoints? Would I fly all waypoints of LAXX6 all the way to the end or I would be instructed to fly direct MZB.
If yes, from where I should expect to fly direct to MZB, we know it should not be from OCN.

I am sorry to ask again, Julio, I just want to understand how to do things properly. Cheers, AJ

[julio.elizalde]

I think you're misunderstanding how the LAXX6 works. There are two options: either you will be sent direct SLI to join the depicted routes to TRM or IPL, or you will be sent direct to SXC, CARDI, or MZB. In this case, you would expect direct MZB.

I would expect the following from 25R at LAX: Depart runway heading to cross the SMO-160R at or below 3000, then turn left to heading 220 to await vectors. The dotted lines only indicate that you may be given a turn to heading 080 before being given direct SLI or SXC/CARDI/MZB and they are only by ATC authorization. Do not do anything beyond turning to heading 220 until advised by ATC. At this point, ATC will either clear you direct MZB or may give you a few vectors as you climb out of the immediate area of the LAX airport to avoid other traffic.

At the end of the day, the only fixes you should have in your FMC are just MZB and KSAN as your clearance limit.

[arb65912]

All clear now, Julio. Thank you again. No more questions on THAT subject. Cheers, AJ