15 degree offset

[djrisc]

Tonight while doing pattern work on 19L at John Wayne, another aircraft was cleared to land on 19R. I reported mid-field downwind for 19L. The call came back that there is traffic landing 19R and to offset 15 degrees and cleared to land 19L.

I kind of winged it (pun intended) and just extended my downwind a little and landed behind the other aircraft.

What does offset 15 degrees actually mean? Is the 15 degrees behind and to the left? That was my guess.

Thanks!

Brett

[Andrew Doubleday]

NOTAMs from SNA:

- VFR ACFT: TO AVOID OVERFLIGHT OF RY 19R: RY 19L ARR FLY FINAL AT 15 DEG ANGLE TO RY; RY 19L DEPS TURN 15 DEG LEFT AT DEP END OF RY. TO AVOID OVERFLIGHT OF RY 01L: RY 01R DEPS TURN 15 DEG RIGHT AT FREEWAY.

Reference: Airnav.com

[arb65912]

So the way I understand it is I shorten by base to 19L and fly final at 15 deg to to runway center line, correct? Same would apply to departure for closed traffic on rwy 19L if there was traffic in pattern on rwy 19R. Cheers, AJ

[Mark Hargrove]

I did my real-world primary training at VNY which has a pair of runways very similar to SNA's. Students always did their pattern work on 16L, which is the shorter of the pair as with 19L at SNA. We all learned to fly a 15-20 degree offset into 16L and as a group, the several students who were learning to fly with other instructors at the same time I was didn't really quite understand that there was any other way to make an approach to a runway -- even at single runway airports we'd find ourselves offsetting by 15 degrees or so as we turned to final just out of habit. My instructor seemed to find this hilarious. One time the dialogue went something like:

Instructor: "You do realize there is only one runway at this aiport, don't you Hargrove?"
Me: "I do. It looked like there was another airplane on short final for taxiway Bravo."
Instructor: (eyes wide, whips his head to the right to look) "What! Where!?!"
Me: "Maybe I was mistaken" (flares for the landing)

I'm sure I paid for that in a later lesson. My instructor carried these little round suction-cup things that perfectly covered the flight instruments. Whenever he wanted revenge he'd pop out a couple and "fail" an instrument or two and sit bag smugly while I floundered around with a failed DG and Tachometer (or whatever).

[julio.elizalde]

I thought all of you might appreciate these photos as a means of illustrating all of this. I was flying with a friend on a San Francisco bay tour. We decided on our way back to Concord CCR to stop at San Jose SJC for a touch and go. We called in about 5 west from SJC, tower told us to enter downwind 30L. As we were nearing our base turn, a hawker jet called in 8 mile final for 30L. Tower gave us clearance for touch and go (notice that we were not given a cleared for the option, because giving us the option would authorize us to do a stop and go, which could really mess things up for the hawker behind us) and then gave landing clearance to the Hawker. As they neared a 3 mile final, they were told to sidestep to 30R. As a precaution we did a 15 degree offset in case of any issues. Some photos from excursion:


15 Degree dog leg to final.


Turning final slightly left of center.


As we were on the go, you can see the hawker slowing on the parallel runway.

[djrisc]

Awesome! Thanks for the explanation! (and the amazing pictures.)

I suck so bad at landing I'm usually offset by 15 degrees anyway, so that's no problem. rofl

All controllers are allowed to put their hands over their eyes every time I land btw.

Brett