Auto Pilot - Fly Closed Traffic

[Rick Stratman]

Hello Community,

First I want to say I am not a Real World pilot, just someone that loves flying and flight simulation is my only available outlet to experience the PIC role.

I received my first taste of ATC with VATSIM, and took me awhile to see if I wanted to take the next step and join PilotEdge.

Now that I have taken the step, I am seeking some opinions on the use of auto pilot in regards with ratings. More Specifically the V1 rating, pattern work.

I have been practicing pattern work and finding it very hard to make proper turns, stay level and watch for the airport with only a front view. So I have been using the autopilot to help with climbing, holding altitude, and flying headings. The autopilot has helped me stay within 2 nm of the runway. The touch and gos are a little tricky. A lot of changes when climbing back up.

Now the question is, would this be considered cheating?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[Pieces]

Sounds like you are a prime candidate for a TrackIR (or freetrack). I think being able to "look" around makes visual flying much much easier. I don't consider using the AP in the sim cheating, simply because without any sort of feel of the aircraft it is really hard fly straight when you need to click on something in the cockpit or whatever. That said, with TrackIR (or a well setup control scheme) I think it is probably easier to hand fly the pattern than it is to get the autopilot all configured for that short of a time.

[hoser70]

I do that often myself Rick. Trying to talk to ATC and hand fly FSX aircraft in the pattern is no where near as easy as it is in real life. Seems odd to say that, but I've always felt this way. It's the lack of depth, peripheral vision and seat of the pants feeling that I think makes it hard to hand fly in the pattern.

That being said, I continue to work to improve on this because A/P in the pattern is sometimes unreliable when you are adjusting flaps and turning.

[Keith Smith]

Welcome to PE. If you're unable to move the view around and take your hand off the stick, then chances are you don't have the plane trimmed correctly. If you watch the V1 pattern video in the training program, you'll see that I look around quite a bit (without a track IR) and don't have any significant issues with aircraft control.

Trim the plane correctly and you should be able to release the stick and pan the view for a few seconds without things getting out of whack.

I do believe it's a bit much to be using the A/P in the pattern and is probably an indicator that something else needs fixing (ie, trim). You COULD use the A/P in the pattern but it's pretty far removed at that point from the actual skill set associated with flying a pattern.

Here's an example of a 737 pilot flying a 737-300 sim in xplane by hand around the pattern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58EAQ7WIgkw (go to the 4 min mark)

If it's doable in a jet, it's doable in a 100kt piston

yes, he's using TrackIR there, but the experience would not be terribly different using some pre-programmed views.

[hoser70]

Keith just called us cheaters...

[Peter Grey]

You COULD use the A/P in the pattern but it's pretty far removed at that point from the actual skill set associated with flying a pattern.

I need to partially disagree with this statement, most autopilots can't be properly used at a low enough altitude for pattern work.

The last GA autopilot I used (GFC-700 in a DA-42NG) had the following limitations:

No altitude capture below 1200' AGL.
No use below 800' for "enroute" (non approach) use.

These 2 limitations basically knock out the autopilot for pattern work.

Jet wise, the CRJ-200 I currently fly has the following autopilot limitations:

Minimum altitude for use after departure: 600' AGL
Minimum altitude for use on a visual approach: 400' AGL

So it is possible in the jet technically, but not really a great idea.

[Keith Smith]

Even better reason, then, not to use it. Thx PG!

[Steven Winslow]

Isn't this why there are HSI's, DG's, CDI's, RMI's, and compasses in airplanes? I've always used some combination of those instruments to help me keep my turns square. Never occurred to me to use the autopilot and I have to agree with Keith.

[Keith Smith]

I agree, Steve, there's enough instrumentation there to give you the situational awareness to hand fly a VFR pattern in the sim. The videos show how to do it, too, using a lot of the instruments you mention.

[Piotr]

Look at this topic also viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2443 .