Hi,
I was given an instruction "Proceed direct seal beach VOR". I reached the VOR without any further instruction so I contacted the controller asking if I could get "on course" and he told me that on course is implied when the vector is to a waypoint in your flight plan. I was always told that unless otherwise instructed you follow the instruction last given and don't assume anything.
From the pilot's perspective, I don't know if there is a traffic reason that I've only been given up to that waypoint so I don't assume that it's okay to turn and proceed on course esp if I'm in IMC conditions. If the instruction is "Proceed Direct Seal Beach VOR resume own navigation" then that's enough to say you're authorized to proceed beyond that.
What is correct here?
EDIT:
A little more information is needed here. This was during my I-3 test so I was under IFR.
Thanks
Rich
Question about an ATC instruction
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Re: Question about an ATC instruction
"Proceed direct" vs "Cleared direct"... If the controller had said "cleared direct SLI" without any further instructions - technically your clearance limit was just changed to the VOR so you'd need more information (holding instructions or something)... but otherwise in this case you'd revert back to what your initial clearance limit was and what route was assigned to get you there (Burbank airport if on the I3 test, or should be anyway). So direct SLI, then as your initial clearance read.
There's ongoing debate on the ATC side of the things as to which phraseology is better to use, "cleared direct" vs "proceed direct"... I've been taught in school proceed direct is more proper if your not changing the clearance limit of the aircraft... In reality I've heard both used interchangeably from controller to controller... Usually the phrase "resume own navigation" or "on course" is then tacked on, however...
There's ongoing debate on the ATC side of the things as to which phraseology is better to use, "cleared direct" vs "proceed direct"... I've been taught in school proceed direct is more proper if your not changing the clearance limit of the aircraft... In reality I've heard both used interchangeably from controller to controller... Usually the phrase "resume own navigation" or "on course" is then tacked on, however...
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Re: Question about an ATC instruction
"cleared direct SLI" does not imply that the clearance limit has changed. It's simply a shortcut on the route. Ambiguity would only exist if SLI wasn't on the previously cleared route, in which case you should question the instruction immediately with, "what should I do after SLI?"
If they really were changing your clearance limit, they would say, "cleared to the Seal Beach VOR via direct" and then they would might also include holding instructions if a delay was expected.
"Cleared direct SLI" and "proceed direct SLI" are functionally the same.
Think of it as them saying "cleared [to the Burbank Airport via] direct SLI [then via previously cleared route]." Or, "cleared direct SLI" for short.
I hear shortcuts in the enroute environment all the time, and 80%+ of the time, it's done via "cleared direct..."
Let's look at the big picture, too...your original clearance on the ground was "cleared to Burbank via fly heading 220, vectors SLI, then as filed..." (presumably). You take off, you're on the 220 heading, then they clear you direct SLI (either with an initial heading or just direct). What's more likely... that they've changed your clearance limit to SLI, or is it more likely that you're still going to Burbank, and they're pointing you towards SLI as promised?
If they really were changing your clearance limit, they would say, "cleared to the Seal Beach VOR via direct" and then they would might also include holding instructions if a delay was expected.
"Cleared direct SLI" and "proceed direct SLI" are functionally the same.
Think of it as them saying "cleared [to the Burbank Airport via] direct SLI [then via previously cleared route]." Or, "cleared direct SLI" for short.
I hear shortcuts in the enroute environment all the time, and 80%+ of the time, it's done via "cleared direct..."
Let's look at the big picture, too...your original clearance on the ground was "cleared to Burbank via fly heading 220, vectors SLI, then as filed..." (presumably). You take off, you're on the 220 heading, then they clear you direct SLI (either with an initial heading or just direct). What's more likely... that they've changed your clearance limit to SLI, or is it more likely that you're still going to Burbank, and they're pointing you towards SLI as promised?
Re: Question about an ATC instruction
Yeah actually didn't think of the ground clearance...it is actually that, a clearance so unless they state otherwise your clearance limit is the destination. I see.
-Rich
-Rich
Re: Question about an ATC instruction
Agreed with KS.... cleared direct / proceed direct - I use them both interchangeably at work.... I have to say "Cleared To" if I'm changing the clearance limit.
Example, we have SKW that goes from KDLH to KORD... routing is KDLH DLH DLL MSN GARTT JVL JVL6 KORD.
Commonly on departure I'll say "SKW5349, duluth departure, radar contact, climb and maintain one two thousand, proceed/cleared direct DLL." The pilot will go to MSN after DLL... it's just known. He's not going to hold at DLL if ATC doesn't say anything different.
Example, we have SKW that goes from KDLH to KORD... routing is KDLH DLH DLL MSN GARTT JVL JVL6 KORD.
Commonly on departure I'll say "SKW5349, duluth departure, radar contact, climb and maintain one two thousand, proceed/cleared direct DLL." The pilot will go to MSN after DLL... it's just known. He's not going to hold at DLL if ATC doesn't say anything different.
PE ID: 29
FAA ATCS
FAA PPL ASEL
FAA ATCS
FAA PPL ASEL
Re: Question about an ATC instruction
The clearance limit would only change if the controller used "Cleared to Seal Beach (VOR)."
Harold Rutila
COMM-MEL/CFII
COMM-MEL/CFII