Hollywood Park Route and ATC Controller Preferences

[Jim DeWilder]

Flew again tonight from Paso Robles to John Wayne via the Hollywood Park Route. I avoided the mistakes I made previously but added two new ones. At least I know the number is decreasing. First, all of the controllers I spoke with tonight were polite and professional. But here is my questions. I was approaching the Queen Mary at 9.500 and asked the controller if, at the Queen Mary, I could fly directly to John Wayne with a heading of 095. He said "no." The Hollywood Park Route required the 140 heading from VNY until you were out of Class Bravo. Fine - no problem at all. But his interpretation had me flying almost 1/4 of the way to Catalina (maybe a slight exaggeration) but definitely over oil platform Ellen - I could see the workers waving at me. Looking at SkyVector afterward, I can see that is the first time I am out of Class Bravo. I knew at the time this was going to happen so I asked, once over the ocean, if I could descend to 3,500 and exit Class Bravo that way. I was told no because the Hollywood Park Route required 9,500 until you were of of Class Bravo. Other controllers this past week not only allowed a direct flight from Queen Mary to John Wayne but also a controlled VFR descent while still in Class Bravo. The controller said this might not be the best route to get to John Wayne, and for the route I took, he was absolutely right. If other traffic prevented me from descending and heading direct to John Wayne from the Queen Mary, I understand totally. But if this is a simply an adherence to regulation, then I am confused. The TAC Chart says, and I am snipping," . . . . follow the Van Nuys 140 radial until exiting the Class Bravo. Maintain altitude as assigned by ATC." One can exit Class Bravo both vertically AND laterally. And if ATC wishes, they can let me descend. In the end, I made it home but only after busting the Class Bravo airspace between 7,000 to 10,000. So, is this up the the controller in question. Or can an individual controller use their own discretion. Either way is fine, I just want to follow the rules and know what usually to expect.

[stevekirks]

Flew again tonight from Paso Robles to John Wayne via the Hollywood Park Route. I avoided the mistakes I made previously but added two new ones. At least I know the number is decreasing. First, all of the controllers I spoke with tonight were polite and professional. But here is my questions. I was approaching the Queen Mary at 9.500 and asked the controller if, at the Queen Mary, I could fly directly to John Wayne with a heading of 095. He said "no." The Hollywood Park Route required the 140 heading from VNY until you were out of Class Bravo.

Not a PE controller, but I've had something similar happen to me before. It has to do with (I think) with the departure gates for John Wayne and Long Beach. If you were to descend to 3500 and turn to KSNA, you would be crossing the departing jet traffic from KSNA's runway 20R, in addition to crossing the VFR traffic of the northwest bound VFR traffic on the same Hollywood Park route and the Coliseum route. It would seem to make sense for the controller to want to exit you predictably from the Bravo using the rules of the route: 9500 feet until exiting the Bravo on that radial. After that I would assume there would be a freq change to another SoCal controller who would stage you for entry into the KSNA Charlie and dump you to their tower as quickly as possible.

[Jim DeWilder]

Thanks, Steve. Going back to the charts, I think you are spot on. I would indeed have been crossing KSNA's jet traffic. And that then is why the controller let me go where he did. You think I would not get into any more trouble but then I turned around and busted the 7K - 10K Class Bravo shelf. My fault for not checking but I was so far out in the sticks, I thought no one would care. Lesson learned. Thanks again.