First flight - some beginner questions

[Stefan]

I did my first two flights yesterday (just closed pattern at SNA) and some minor questions have come up.

When do I turn the transponder on? Before contacting ground or only once I got taxi?

Ground to Tower handoff. I assume I was supposed to switch to tower myself, after taxing to the runway. I thought frequencies are changed only on instruction? Is that official practice at all airports or SNA / PE specific?

I was asked to report midfield, but had my difficulties getting through sometimes. Once I'm beyond midfield, I just report current position, right? "Abeam the numbers", "turning base", etc. What if the tower clears me for the option before I get through? should I report the position as part of the clearance readback? I kinda doubt the tower is still interested in it.

If I approch an airport from outside, the tower might give me instructions on where to vacate the runway. If I'm cleared for the option, I may stop, but the tower doesn't really get a chance to give me such instructions. So I just took the next taxiway. What would be the procedure if the tower had some strong opinions on where I should leave the runway once I'm done with my touch-and-goes?

After taxing back to the ramp, I just turned the radios off. Was that wrong? Shouldn't I get permission to leave the frequency first?

Also, at SNA from east ramp, why A-H-C to 20L at K? Why not the full runway and why not just stay on A? I was expecting A-L and was totally thrown of balance (it didn't take a lot). The poor controller had to give me the taxi instructions three times before I got it right

I clearly have a lot of learning to do. Many thanks to the patient controllers, expecially the one yesterday 9-10am. I'll do better next time

-
Stefan

[Kyle.Sanders]

__ Turn your transponder on on all taxiways when the airport diagram indicates that ASDE-X is in use. In this case the KSNA diagram does "ASDE-X in use. Operate transponders with altitude reporting mode and ADS-B (if equipped) enabled on all twys and rwys."
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1513/00377AD.PDF


__ If unable to report where they told you due to freq congestion, just report your current position.


__ once they clear you for the option, that means they have assessed the pattern and determined you are clear. No need to report on that pass but should still report on the next one.


__ I'm not fully understanding your question about "strong options" but if the tower did not want you to do something, they can clear you for the option still with restrictions. "N123AB, runway 20L, cleared for the option. Unable stop & go."
If no restriction was given, you are able to compete that approach of your choice including a full stop landing. In this case, exit the runway where practical and notify tower where you exited and your intentions. "Tower, N123AB off of 20L at J. Taxi back to the runway/ramp."


__ You can leave the freq on your own without being told to with a few situations:

---upon confirmation that "read back correct" from clearance. (Clearance to ground)

---upon reaching the runway for departure. (Ground to tower)

---once exited a class D airspace. (Tower to CTAF/approach/another tower/etc...)

--- once off any movement areas such as the taxiway. (Your case)


__ At KSNA, they use taxiway A for pushback at the terminal to the north. You taxing up there would create problems for them. So they sent you via C. This is common practice.



I hope this answers all of your questions!

Welcome to the network! This is truly a learning environment and these type of posts are what everyone likes to see. Keep it up and try giving the pilot ratings a try. They helped me learn when I was starting out: http://training.pilotedge.net/page/overview

[RyanK]

Good answers Kyle, and good questions Stefan. I'll add that the current guidance in the AIM is to leave the transponder in altitude mode at all times, ground radar or not.

[Stefan]

Many thanks for all the answers and the uplifting comments Kyle. That cleared things up a bit. I've seen the training page and the workshop vids. I'll try the pilot ratings, but as long as a simple taxi instruction has me falling apart, I'm not ready.

I'm still trying to figure out where the transponder fits into my procedure for ASDE-X airports. I taxi to the edge of the non-movement area with the transponder off, then, when I get instructed to taxi, I turn it on. Correct? Or can I turn it on before that? I like to get as much done as possible, as soon as possible.

Let me clarify. Lets say we are on KSNA and it's not a good idea to use J for some reason. Debris on the taxiway, or maybe ground just instructed someone to taxi & hold short there for a crossing for some reason. If I'm cleared for the option I might just decide to do a full stop and leave at J.
I sometimes hear ATC say things like "Vacate runway to the left on ..., cleared to land, runway ...". But never in combination with "cleared for the option". How will I know not to use J?

But... but... I like A! I wanna wave at the pax in the terminal! Still, why K and not the complete runway? To speed things up? that's what, 2-3 seconds less on the runway? 5 seconds less taxi? Or, ahhh, its to keep L free for the big-birds isn't it? Thats where they cross 20L to get over to 20R. I really have to get used to the fact that I'm no longer the only plane...

-Stefan

[zengei]

I did my first two flights yesterday

Welcome!

When do I turn the transponder on? Before contacting ground or only once I got taxi?

I agree with RyanK (and the FAA) just turn your transponder on as soon as practicable regardless of if the airport has ground radar or not, it doesn't hurt anything and is one less "if/else" case you have to keep in your head.

Ground to Tower handoff. I assume I was supposed to switch to tower myself, after taxing to the runway. I thought frequencies are changed only on instruction? Is that official practice at all airports or SNA / PE specific?

Kyle covered the cases, but I'll point out that that is real world practice (as nearly everything on PE is) not something specific to KSNA or PE.

If I approch an airport from outside, the tower might give me instructions on where to vacate the runway. If I'm cleared for the option, I may stop, but the tower doesn't really get a chance to give me such instructions. So I just took the next taxiway. What would be the procedure if the tower had some strong opinions on where I should leave the runway once I'm done with my touch-and-goes?

If the tower had a strong opinion they would tell you... but they generally don't. Tower might suggest where to exit but as the pilot you have final authority to determine where the safest place to exit for you is. For example if you're landing 20L and tower tells you to exit at J but you find you can't practically make it, you're well within your rights to continue down to H.

Also, at SNA from east ramp, why A-H-C to 20L at K? Why not the full runway and why not just stay on A?

Kyle covered why they avoid A but the reason you're given 20L@K rather than full length is because the airline terminal is on the east side but they use the runway on the west side. So to avoid airlines getting stuck behind GA aircraft using 20L they keep taxiway L clear so the airlines can taxiway behind the GA aircraft as necessary.

I clearly have a lot of learning to do. Many thanks to the patient controllers, expecially the one yesterday 9-10am. I'll do better next time

If you weren't aware the Pilot Training Workshops do a great job of going over a lot of this practical stuff.

[stevekirks]

Great replies here and cover everything well. The switch to tower is something that you get used because in the fake ATC in FSX and on VATSIM, they give you the change on your own. In the real world, at some high traffic airports, there might be a sign on the taxiway that says "MONITOR TOWER XXX.XX" or similar. Also, in that same situation your ground controller will give you the switch.

Overall, PE is operated on real world rules, but the old adage still applies: If you don't know, just ask.

Big things I've heard on the radios to remember:

• When the controller gives another aircraft an instruction, mentally do the readback in your head so you'll have an estimate when the frequency is clear. In most cases on PE, you'll hear the controller all of the time but the other pilots NOT on your frequency are silenced. Radio transmission step-ons are frustrating for everyone, so keep an eye out.
• If you're on a procedure and HAVE NOT been given a heading to fly, then while you're waiting for radio congestion to clear, don't deviate--fly the procedure because that's what your controller is expecting. Don't enter a hold on your own, or circle for a delay when under IFR--just follow the last instruction.
• If you're VFR, make sure you know EXACTLY where you are because if you bust an airspace restriction, the controller has to stop their flow and deal with you to make sure you're not a hazard to others.
• I switch the transponder to normal as soon as I call for clearance. It makes it easier for the controller to find you on the scope.
• If you're calling for taxi, make sure you give them your location on the field using this basic guideline:
  -- Look on the chart for a location name like "Transient Parking" or "Terminal 2" and use that
  -- Can't find a location name? Use the cardinal direction of the area: "Southwest hangars" or "ramp near taxiway A and E"
  -- To help the controller, make sure you state VFR or IFR at the end of the taxi call and if VFR try to make sure they know if you want flight following. A squawk code assignment does not equal automatic flight following.
• Learn the difference between movement and non-movement areas to save yourself time on the taxi and on the radio. I call for clearance when parked and powered up, waiting for the temps to come up. Once I have clearance, I taxi in the NON-MOVEMENT AREA up to the nearest taxiway borderline, stop and apply the parking brake, then call for taxi.
• Do the rating tests because they have radio transcripts to follow when you're starting out.
• Always have an alternate airport or route in mind when VFR in case you get lost or confused on the radio.

[Stefan]

Thanks Ryan, Zengei, and Steve! Looks like we have some overlapping answer-writing going on here

I got another one: Where do I runup my little four-seater on KSNA? I see four designated runup areas. But strictly speaking, A-H-C-K does not take me through any of them (but just past the midfield one).

-Stefan

[Kyle.Sanders]

Thanks Ryan, Zengei, and Steve! Looks like we have some overlapping answer-writing going on here

I got another one: Where do I runup my little four-seater on KSNA? I see four designated runup areas. But strictly speaking, A-H-C-K does not take me through any of them (but just past the midfield one).

-Stefan

1) you can ask for taxi to the midfield run-up area before asking for taxi to the runway.

2) if you are able, try to complete your runup at the ramp (if clear and able to).

[stevekirks]

Thanks Ryan, Zengei, and Steve! Looks like we have some overlapping answer-writing going on here

I got another one: Where do I runup my little four-seater on KSNA? I see four designated runup areas. But strictly speaking, A-H-C-K does not take me through any of them (but just past the midfield one).

-Stefan

1) you can ask for taxi to the midfield run-up area before asking for taxi to the runway.

2) if you are able, try to complete your runup at the ramp (if clear and able to).

If you listen to LiveATC (liveatc.net) for KSNA, you'll frequently hear the calls for "taxi to the midfield runup" which is just south of the A-H intersection. It's after the runup that the pilot will call ground (again) for taxi with the weather.

[Stefan]

Sooo... when do I make my runup at the ramp and when at the runup area? What exactly are the condictions to be "clear" as Kyle puts it? Won't the other plane owners be somewhat displeased if I blow all sorts of dust and gravel through the ramp?