Hooray I passed my V1 and V2!!!

[signmanbob]

Wow! My Mom used to always say that I passed high school by the "skin of my teeth", well I think I just passed my V1 by the "skin of my teeth" also
I believe the traffic controller wants me to work on my read-backs a little. What he don't know is that I'm just happy that I was able to talk at all. I'm still nervous as anything to talk, but it's so much fun.
I'm so happy. It's very encouraging now, for me to keep moving on to V2.
It wasn't enough to just pass the V1. I was so pumped, that I made my first flight into class Charlie airspace, landing on 15R at Santa Barbarbra.
After I landed and exited the runway, the ground controller at KSBA gave me taxi instructions and told me to take Mike and Charlie, crossing Rwy25 to the transient parking. Now I read that even if they give you taxi instructions that takes you across a runway, you still have to stop at that runway and request clearance to cross the runway. Well, when I did that, I got a little tongue lashing
Now I don't know if what I read is true or not, but I'll probably get it again for crossing a runway without getting clearance later on.
Well, it's all fun. I don't feel like the "Lone Ranger" because I'm also hearing a lot of other pilots getting their knuckles busted by the school master.

[Kyle.Sanders]

Congrats on the v1!

To help get over that fright....

1. Remember that the controller is a person. They make mistakes too.
2. Take a trip to your nearest real world tower. Give them a call and set up an appointment for a tour. There you will see it from the controllers side and focus on "what information would ATC need from the pilot?" in as many situations as you can get (example: taxi, clearance, takeoff clearance, landing clearance, pattern entry, etc...). The majority will have the answer of "Position, intentions and confirmation of weather"... But you know what I mean.

After landing at SBA and given taxi instructions, those taxi instructions would have included "cross runway 25". If they didn't, they should have or included "hold short" instructions---Always!
Those would be considered your "clearance".

--go back to and listen to the recordings.
http://www.pilotedge.net/audio/2016-07-18

[RyanK]

It used to be the case that taxi instructions implied that you could cross any runways on your taxi route. That's NOT the case any more. All runway crossing and hold short must be made explicit, so if you think your taxi route takes you across a runway and you didn't hear a crossing or hold short instruction, you should speak up. Never enter a runway unless you're positive you're cleared onto it. It sounds like in your case you were told "cross runway 25", so you were good to go.

Congrats on the V-1!

[signmanbob]

Thank you Kyle! I appreciate it and appreciate the advise.
I get nervous, mainly because I know that everybody listens to what you say and if you say things in the wrong format,well..., I it sounds dorky.
I know that the controllers are just people, like everyone else, but they are people that are highly skilled at controlling air traffic, and knowledgeable in the rules of aviation.
That makes me nervous, because I'm at a point where I'm just learning the basics, and being put in a complex and realistic aviation environment while I am yet so green, knowing that my ignorance can disrupt the flow of events for others, is a little unnerving.
But hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained. It's all part of the excitement of using RAS (Realistic Aviation Simulation). How about that! I made my own aviation acronym. Just what the aviation world needs. A new acronym.

Setting up a tour of a tower is very good advise. I'll look into doing that at some point.

Thank you,
Bob

[Keith Smith]

the ground controller at KSBA gave me taxi instructions and told me to take Mike and Charlie, crossing Rwy25 to the transient parking.

Your message implies that the controller instructed you to cross the runway as part of the taxi instruction.

Now I read that even if they give you taxi instructions that takes you across a runway, you still have to stop at that runway and request clearance to cross the runway.

That is incorrect. There is no need to receive the crossing instruction while you're holding short of the runway, the crossing instruction could be issued well in advance of you arriving at the runway, as it was in your case (from what you've described).

The rule is simply that you need permission to cross the runway. The rule doesn't stipulate when that permission must be given.

[signmanbob]

It used to be the case that taxi instructions implied that you could cross any runways on your taxi route. That's NOT the case any more. All runway crossing and hold short must be made explicit, so if you think your taxi route takes you across a runway and you didn't hear a crossing or hold short instruction, you should speak up. Never enter a runway unless you're positive you're cleared onto it. It sounds like in your case you were told "cross runway 25", so you were good to go.

Congrats on the V-1!

That interesting. I might have understood it wrong.
I read that you have to hear the words "cleared to cross" in the instructions, and not just the instruction "cross runway".
Thank you. I'm looking forward to doing V2 now.

Bob

[signmanbob]

the ground controller at KSBA gave me taxi instructions and told me to take Mike and Charlie, crossing Rwy25 to the transient parking.

Your message implies that the controller instructed you to cross the runway as part of the taxi instruction.

Now I read that even if they give you taxi instructions that takes you across a runway, you still have to stop at that runway and request clearance to cross the runway.

That is incorrect. There is no need to receive the crossing instruction while you're holding short of the runway, the crossing instruction could be issued well in advance of you arriving at the runway.

The rule is simply that you need permission to cross the runway. The rule doesn't stipulate when that permission must be given.

Yes, the controller did say to "cross runway 25", so I thought that instruction would take me to runway 25 but I still needed to be cleared to cross. My thinking was that between the time that he gave the instruction and the time that I got there, someone may be landing or taking off, since he didn't say "cleared to cross runway 25" in the instruction. Then it would be a runway incursion on my part.
Of course if that was happening, he would just call me and tell me to hold short. It makes sense.
I'll probably read a lot of things that are not accurate in the future, but PilotEdge is a good test bed for anything like that.

[RyanK]

It used to be the case that taxi instructions implied that you could cross any runways on your taxi route. That's NOT the case any more. All runway crossing and hold short must be made explicit, so if you think your taxi route takes you across a runway and you didn't hear a crossing or hold short instruction, you should speak up. Never enter a runway unless you're positive you're cleared onto it. It sounds like in your case you were told "cross runway 25", so you were good to go.

Congrats on the V-1!

That interesting. I might have understood it wrong.
I read that you have to hear the words "cleared to cross" in the instructions, and not just the instruction "cross runway".
Thank you. I'm looking forward to doing V2 now.

Bob

Ah, gotcha. Right, you won't hear the word "cleared", but you do need to hear "cross runway 25."

[Keith Smith]

Bob, try not to overthink it. "Cross runway 25" is really pretty clear when you step back and look at it with fresh eyes. The only clearances you're going to receive as a VFR pilot are:
1) takeoff
2) landing
3) bravo airspace

[signmanbob]

Ah, gotcha. Right, you won't hear the word "cleared", but you do need to hear "cross runway 25."

This is why these forums are so great to have.
With a busy air traffic controllers, you can't query them while they are juggling blips on their screen that probably look like ants going in every direction.
There is so many very knowledgeable people available on these forums that asking the question here will not only give the answer, but elaborate enough on the subject, that it builds a good solid understanding.
I won't worry about this again when getting taxi instructions.
Thank you all for being here and available to answer these kinds of questions.


Bob