Jet Departure Altitudes

[barcman1967]

I am wondering about initial IFR altitude clearances for jets on departure....

I am not looking to do this any time soon. I am currently flying a fairly slow turbine to work through my IFR procedures and skills. However, I fly a Challenger 300 (DDENN design) with an X-Plane stock FMS (not interested in XFMC) so my departures will include a boatload of twisting and turning dials combined with some FIX navigation.

So....using the HASSA8.DAG departure from KONT, what would the initial altitude restriction be prior to contacting Departure and then, what would the next altitude clearance be?

I am mostly worried about busting an altitude or having to pull serious throttle back in order to not bust an altitude and/ or exceeding the 200 knots inside a Charlie for example all the while having to twist and turn for headings and radial intercepts.

I know this is a bit of a vague question, but any help would be appreciated while I practice my departures offline.

[Keith Smith]

The HASSA8 SID states that the top altitude is assigned by ATC, so it's not really possible to know this without having flown it once before, or having heard it being assigned to someone else. I'm not a huge fan of offline practice of SIDs and obtaining information ahead of the flight that would otherwise be not so easy to get....but if this is what you think is best, the altitude assignment will be "climb via SID except maintain 10,000" if you're assigned the HASSA SID. Unless told otherwise by Socal Departure after checking in with them, you'd need to meet the restrictions at POM. You will then receive a climb from socal departure to the top of their airspace (13k), followed by a handoff to LA Center with a climb to FL230, then a handoff to the high enroute sector with a climb to your final flight level (if it's above FL230). The climb from socal will kill the POM restrictions unless the restrictions are restated, or you're told to climb via the SID as part of the climb to 13k.

I would encourage you to not feel it's required to know these things prior to attempting a flight on a SID like this. In the real world, a jet pilot may well have to fly this SID for the first time, on his/her own at first glance.

A thorough departure briefing should be the only thing that's required to fly any SID safely, not hours of offline practice and using information that you may not have access to in the r/w. I say this because it I think it's more valuable to get good at flying SIDs the right way, with ATC, on your first try so that you'll be well equipped to fly any real world SID in the country if the comes, as opposed to using a method which wouldn't be available to you in the real world. I don't mean to be preachy, but wanted to explain the reasoning behind why I felt it wasn't necessarily the best approach to training.

[Ryan B]

I wholeheartedly agree with Keith! Fly it online! I use that CL30 as well - tiny clickspots and a lot of power, I don't have external hardware (I have a few extra buttons), so flying the CL30 is a real challenge for me. Plus in real life you'd have another pilot and tactile feedback.

That aside, fly it and practice online - it will make you better.

[barcman1967]

Thanks for the explanations and advice. No worries Keith, didn't consider it preachy at all. In fact, the time you spend in the detailed response is greatly appreciated. I was looking for general ideas of altitude assignments (jet vs props) rather than a specifics - sorry if I didn't explain that better. Having never flown jets on the network, maybe I am just used to hearing lower altitudes. I will definitely keep my ears open.

As Ryan put it - lots of power and small clickspots but it's a fantastic model which is a lot of fun to fly.

Things happen pretty fast in it so I think my issue is fear of completely duffing it.

I am recently back on PE after a few months hiatus and I will certainly give it a try once I get my comfort level back.

Thanks again gents!